paizo.com - Forums / Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Sorcerer Build Player Core 2 (2024)

Good Evening,

My party is starting Rusthenge, before moving onto Seven Dooms for Sandpoint.

We are using the new Core rules, including Player Core 2.

Does anyone have a Sorcerer build that they would like to share that would be suitable?

Regards

Prux.

Just play a Heavy Metal Sorcerer, which will be very strong & thematic.

Ancestry/Heritage: whatever you want¹
Background: Osprey Spellcaster (or Osprey Scribe)
Class: Sorcerer (Elemental bloodline, Metal)

Cantrips: Electric Arc [bloodline], Frostbite, Live Wire, Slashing Gust, Glass Shield
Spells: Thunderstrike [bloodline], Heal, Conductive Weapon/Mystic Weapon²
Skills: Nature & Intimidation [bloodline], Diplomacy, Athletics, Occultism, Religion
Equipment (standard): Adventurer's Pack, Climbing Kit, Explorer's Clothing, Dagger, Light Mace, Wooden Shield, Elixir of Life/Healing Potion

1: I do suggest an ancestry with an arcane/divine/occult cantrip, so you can get Shield (and replace Glass Shield with something else, like Guidance or Needle Darts).
2: If your strikers have at most a d6 weapon, then I suggest Conductive Weapon over Mystic Weapon, or just for the flair.

Check out this blaster build I just put together.

Works great with a metal element sorcerer or imperial sorcerer as well!

Blave wrote:

With the massive flexibility of the sorcerer class, we might need a bit more to go on if you want any solid advice.

The party consists of a fighter, rogue, cleric and a kineticist.

I've always like playing combat style arcane casters and was interested in either a Draconic or Imperial bloodline.

Prux wrote:

Blave wrote:

With the massive flexibility of the sorcerer class, we might need a bit more to go on if you want any solid advice.

The party consists of a fighter, rogue, cleric and a kineticist.

I've always like playing combat style arcane casters and was interested in either a Draconic or Imperial bloodline.

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I also painted up a mini for a human, which I'm keen to use.

Ravingdork wrote:

Check out this blaster build I just put together.

Works great with a metal element sorcerer or imperial sorcerer as well!

Thanks Mate, I'll have a look now.

Here's an example build of a pretty optimized human imperial sorcerer I made that goes up to level 12:

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=833653.

Picks up some of the strongest arcane spells available, and should be able to cover most grounds in combat. I think it's overall one of the strongest ways you can play an offensive spellcaster right now.

Some notes on choices:
- Dip into psychic dedication at level 2 because sorcerer feats at that level are not the greatest, although Propelling Sorcery could be very good in some circ*mstances. Also because amped guidance, an extra focus point (which can also be used on Ancestral Memories) and trained occultism is too good to pass on.

- Robust health assuming your cleric or someone else will be using Battle Medicine. Canny acumen is going to better than Incredible Initiative until level 11 assuming you roll perception for initiative most of the time. But you could pick up both of them and retrain Canny Acumen to Robust Health once you hit level 11. You could also opt for light armor via Armor Proficiency.

- Live wire cantrip has incredible scaling but is not that great until level 5 or so and can be swapped in once u get there. You will want to swap out spells in general as you level in favor of more utility, examples being Runic Weapon for something like Gentle Landing, Fireball for Time Jump, etc.

- Magical shorthand to make learning spells for Arcane Evolution cheaper / more reliable

- Crossblooded evolution with Elemental for the damage or intimidation buff. Between this and Sorcerous Potency, your Arcane Missiles will hurt a lot. That's why I don't think there's a need for another single target blast besides Disintegrate (which has utility use).

- I didn't opt for Tap Into Blood because it, while looking great on paper, does not function that well in practice in my opinion because:
a) your arcana skill increases will lag behind due to wanting to prioritize intimidation for demoralize (and likely diplomacy as well), as well as due to a lack of INT
b) it does not really fit well into the Imperial Sorcerer's action economy. It will trigger off Ancestral Memories, but you'll want to cast a spell in that round as well, spending all of your actions and losing your blood magic effect at the end of the round. Arcane Missiles is preferably cast as a 3-action spell, so that's out as well. Dispel Magic is not used reliably, etc. It's also kind of clunky because you'd ideally want to Recall Knowledge before casting your spell instead of after. I guess it can work once you pick up Haste, with a turn quicked turn going Ancestral memories > Recall knowledge > cast a spell. From level 15 on the feat also becomes redundant due to Unified Theory.

Hope that gives you some inspiration. I think it would fit well in your composition, especially considering you would make a great party face as well.

Maxcentric wrote:

Here's an example build of a pretty optimized human imperial sorcerer I made that goes up to level 12:

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=833653.

Picks up some of the strongest arcane spells available, and should be able to cover most grounds in combat. I think it's overall one of the strongest ways you can play an offensive spellcaster right now.

Some notes on choices:
- Dip into psychic dedication at level 2 because sorcerer feats at that level are not the greatest, although Propelling Sorcery could be very good in some circ*mstances. Also because amped guidance, an extra focus point (which can also be used on Ancestral Memories) and trained occultism is too good to pass on.

- Robust health assuming your cleric or someone else will be using Battle Medicine. Canny acumen is going to better than Incredible Initiative until level 11 assuming you roll perception for initiative most of the time. But you could pick up both of them and retrain Canny Acumen to Robust Health once you hit level 11. You could also opt for light armor via Armor Proficiency.

- Live wire cantrip has incredible scaling but is not that great until level 5 or so and can be swapped in once u get there. You will want to swap out spells in general as you level in favor of more utility, examples being Runic Weapon for something like Gentle Landing, Fireball for Time Jump, etc.

- Magical shorthand to make learning spells for Arcane Evolution cheaper / more reliable

- Crossblooded evolution with Elemental for the damage or intimidation buff. Between this and Sorcerous Potency, your Arcane Missiles will hurt a lot. That's why I don't think there's a need for another single target blast besides Disintegrate (which has utility use).

- I didn't opt for Tap Into Blood because it, while looking great on paper, does not function that well in practice in my opinion because:
a) your arcana skill increases will lag behind due to wanting to prioritize...

Thank you very much, I will have a look into that build. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Maxcentric wrote:

- I didn't opt for Tap Into Blood because it, while looking great on paper, does not function that well in practice in my opinion because:

a) your arcana skill increases will lag behind due to wanting to prioritize intimidation for demoralize (and likely diplomacy as well), as well as due to a lack of INT

A little lagging behind or lower ability score is offset by the fact that you can use Arcana to roll Recall Knowledge with any skill.

To emphasize this point: If you're encountering a Zombie Shambler, don't Recall Knowledge with Arcana instead of Religion, but Recall Knowledge with Arcana instead of Zombie Shambler Lore.

You're now using Arcana instead of a specific Lore skill, which has a much lower DC. Because, you know, Imperial Sorcerers just ridiculed Bardic Knowledge! :D

While Imperial Sorcerer is an amazing caster, if you are starting at lvl 1 I would actually go Draconic, Fortune per example have some really good sorcerous gifts. Why I say that? Ancestral Memories requires another spell to be good, and at lower levels you don't have many of those, so the Flurry of Claws starts better in my opinion.

If you go Dragonic maybe pick the Dragonblooded versatile with Dragon Hide as it's thematic for the character as well.

Theaitetos wrote:

Maxcentric wrote:

- I didn't opt for Tap Into Blood because it, while looking great on paper, does not function that well in practice in my opinion because:

a) your arcana skill increases will lag behind due to wanting to prioritize intimidation for demoralize (and likely diplomacy as well), as well as due to a lack of INT

A little lagging behind or lower ability score is offset by the fact that you can use Arcana to roll Recall Knowledge with any skill.

To emphasize this point: If you're encountering a Zombie Shambler, don't Recall Knowledge with Arcana instead of Religion, but Recall Knowledge with Arcana instead of Zombie Shambler Lore.

You're now using Arcana instead of a specific Lore skill, which has a much lower DC. Because, you know, Imperial Sorcerers just ridiculed Bardic Knowledge! :D

I suppose it is very powerful given you can target lower DCs, and with it not being able to crit fail you could combine it with Dubious Knowledge to always learn something. Could also pick up Automatic Knowledge to guarantee successes on mooks as a free action. Any recommendations on how you would fit it into your action economy at lower levels? I guess you could pick up Bleed Out at level 2 and do Ancestral Memories > Recall Knowledge > Bleed Out for a decent 60 feet opener to a fight, potentially applying persistent bleed to the BBEG and learning about its weaknesses.

Maxcentric wrote:

I suppose it is very powerful given you can target lower DCs, and with it not being able to crit fail you could combine it with Dubious Knowledge to always learn something. Could also pick up Automatic Knowledge to guarantee successes on mooks as a free action. Any recommendations on how you would fit it into your action economy at lower levels? I guess you could pick up Bleed Out at level 2 and do Ancestral Memories > Recall Knowledge > Bleed Out for a decent 60 feet opener to a fight, potentially applying persistent bleed to the BBEG and learning about its weaknesses.

Yeah, if you use highly specific lore skills, Assurance will auto succeed even on non-mooks. It's basically a permanent +5 untyped bonus to all your Recall Knowledge checks. Even a -1 INT Sorcerer could then outdo a Wizard.

The action economy is the only thing that's weak about this ability. It's hard to pull of without wasting the rest of the round; your option is a good one (though you'd have to do Bleed Out before Tap Into Blood).

It's best if you have the ability to scout ahead and you're not pressed for useful actions.

And maybe Tap Into Blood gets an errata or something that changes its action cost, as it is a little weird not being a reaction or free action, especially if you suspect that the divine option to Step should make sense somehow.

Arcaian wrote:

Frankly, I don't know anyone who gives the hyper-specific lore DC reduction with any ability that lets you make any recall knowledge check with a single skill. It's a pretty silly interpretation, both narratively (you're supposed to get the benefit for focusing your studies in a niche area, which you've done the exact opposite of if you've invested all your RK capabilities in one check) and mechanically (it's a huge boost, completely incomparable to anything else in the game). I don't particularly care if the wording on something like bardic lore or esoteric lore is that you make a check with those lores, whereas Tap Into Blood lets you make a specific check with your arcana modifier (that seems to be how people are treating it, I don't have access to the text). It's a nonsensical outcome, clearly unintended, and neither I nor anyone I know will be running it that way. I do not think it is an intended part of the power budget, to say the least.

I would allow it. Every monster lists multiple lore types. If the particular RK knowledge challenge allows multiple lore types, why wouldn't you be able to use the most favorable? Nothing in the ability says you can't say, "I access Undead Lore with my Tap the Blood ability." It would be GM Fiat disallowing it and a GM is fine to do so if they don't like allowing the favorable use of an ability.

I would allow it myself. I would consider that intelligent play and if Paizo intended otherwise, then it should have been written more clearly than to be exploitable in that fashion.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Arcaian wrote:

Frankly, I don't know anyone who gives the hyper-specific lore DC reduction with any ability that lets you make any recall knowledge check with a single skill. It's a pretty silly interpretation, both narratively (you're supposed to get the benefit for focusing your studies in a niche area, which you've done the exact opposite of if you've invested all your RK capabilities in one check) and mechanically (it's a huge boost, completely incomparable to anything else in the game). I don't particularly care if the wording on something like bardic lore or esoteric lore is that you make a check with those lores, whereas Tap Into Blood lets you make a specific check with your arcana modifier (that seems to be how people are treating it, I don't have access to the text). It's a nonsensical outcome, clearly unintended, and neither I nor anyone I know will be running it that way. I do not think it is an intended part of the power budget, to say the least.

I would allow it. Every monster lists multiple lore types. If the particular RK knowledge challenge allows multiple lore types, why wouldn't you be able to use the most favorable? Nothing in the ability says you can't say, "I access Undead Lore with my Tap the Blood ability." It would be GM Fiat disallowing it and a GM is fine to do so if they don't like allowing the favorable use of an ability.

I would allow it myself. I would consider that intelligent play and if Paizo intended otherwise, then it should have been written more clearly than to be exploitable in that fashion.

Monsters don't list any lore types at all actually - only Archives of Nethys does. I wouldn't allow the most favourable because, again, it's meant to represent the benefit you get from constraining your studies to a very limited set of topics both mechanically and narratively. If you're using only Arcana to make all Recall Knowledge checks, you have absolutely not done that. The wording from Recall Knowledge in Player Core is :

Player Core, Recall Knowledge wrote:

Using an applicable Lore to Recall Knowledge about a topic, such as Engineering Lore instead of Crafting to find structural weaknesses in a bridge, typically comes with a lower DC. Your special interests can pay off!

Player Core, Creature Identification wrote:

Using the applicable Lore usually has an easy or very easy DC (before adjusting for rarity).

Sure, if a mechanic says "whenever you recall knowledge, you can use your Arcana modifier instead of the modifier of the skill", there's a reasonable rules argument to be said that you should get the easy or very easy DC. But for one, it's much more up-to-GM-discretion than AoN makes it look, and two, it's actively working against the narrative that this mechanic is trying to do to give a huge boost that is pretty clearly (imo) not budgeted into the ability. You call it intelligent play, but it's incredibly straightforward - you just say "I want a free -5 to the DC when rolling this check please!" on literally every RK you ever make. There's no decision making there, there's nothing to be intelligent with - it's just getting a bonus. And the bonus is large enough that you'll have the same chance of success as someone who has +5 int and is a Legendary in the skill when you are only +4 int and an expert in the skill! And you only need to invest in one skill! It's clearly out of budget, IMO, and pretending that it's somehow intelligent play to exploit this seems absurd to me.

Also it'd be lovely if someone could confirm the actual text of the ability, as almost all the equivalent abilities in the game say 'You can Recall Knowledge with [x] skill check to Recall Knowledge about any topic', which does prevent all of this from coming up, as you're not rolling an appropriate Lore check for the difficulty reduction.